Ex-fleet vehicle backed by an extensive logbook service history and loaded with extras!! Homemade Roof Rack With Accessories: This Instructable is a companion project to a previous Instructable project of mine called Wooden Roof Rack which can be found here.. Notice that the rear tire is then jammed into the channel. 2012 GREATWALL V200 DUALCAB Ute 4x4 Turbo diesel 6sp manual in excellent condition! The roof top bike rack is very beneficial. Roof rack is made up of bars and is fastened to the top of cars. "I recently purchased a canopy rack for my 2002 GMC 4x4 HD2500 Sierra Crewcab pickup. on Step 4, you will have to keep an eye on the roof racks as you will encounter rapid corrosion where the Duragal RHS meets the aluminium, the exact same reason you cannot leave galvanised chain for the anchor sitting in the bottom of an aluminium boat. Next, I found a pallet board that was 3.5” wide , 1” thick and about 4 feet long. The kayak saddle rack I made work real well, but they seemed a little bulky to me. The new saddle pads were finished and ready to attach to the roof rack rails. 20% OFF. We used to keep … Using four 40 mm metric size M6 bolts, I temporarily bolted the four mounting bases to the roof of the van. These are great car toppers because they are light and collapse tightly around the cargo inside with the compression straps. Long distance bike rides have now become possible again thanks to your excellenct "Canadian Instructable" Thanks again! 31. These racks weigh between 50-70 kilos. We are Roof Rack and Towbar fitting experts and will help you match your exact vehicle model to the solution you need. The Roof rack is one of the add-on items for Cars. Best part, removability when not needed! Flexiglass FlexiSport Canopy Heavy Duty RLT600 Trackmount Silver 2 Bar Roof Rack. I wanted to make the rack more useful after the ski rack is removed. Some cars come with the manufacturer's designed roof racks but some car owners most times decide to make a customized car racks to suit their needs. And for some reason, RVers more than almost any other group of people, seem to flock to DIY solutions for simple RV problems. That’s why when our deck swing broke last year after a very heavy wind storm, I decided to take it apart and save the metal pieces. By trial and error, I determined that the bolt holes take a metric size 6 bolt. Question I cut about 3 inches off the sides of this channel, leaving the bottom of the channel only. Did you make this project? They do improve the look a bit. I then cut a wedge off each of the blocks. The last step was to attach the foam chair pads. There are commercially made bicycle fork mount racks that are attached to roof racks. More information... People also love these ideas. We Are Leading Provider Of Ladder Racks For UTEs Located in Queensland, Australia. Tail light covers on 2004 Dodge: 2004 Dodge with stainless … They are designed to be versatile and could carry various items. 4.6 out of 5 stars 160. The basket roof racks offer is fastened to the GOP of motor cars. 1-16 of over 1,000 results for "canopy roof rack" Skip to main search results Eligible for Free Shipping. Trailer 6x4 with gas struts lift up canopy & roof racks, … I saw a set on Ebay for about $120.00 but still, I'd have to figure out how to mount it to the roof rack I bought. This wedge was cut at a fairly flat angle so that the pads would sit quite flats as well. This completed the main part of my Instructable, the aluminum roof rack. I would then attach these rails to the channels. We’ve had the van for about four years now. I decided to make a saddle type kayak roof rack. and found that just the tracks cost around $250 (CAD) and then the towers, cross bars, and locks were an additional $600 or so. As shown in the pictures this made for an extremely strong roof rack system. Aug 16, 2019 - Explore Lucas Schwartz's board "Truck Canopy", followed by 210 people on Pinterest. But you will pay for that, cheaper then the dealer, but not inexpensive if you are on a budget. The roof rack on the top of the tear drop trailer is quite useful in carrying items such as bicycles, sport items, fishing items etc. They all fit to the length of your Grand vitara while providing a very light weight. I am really looking forward to the summer season. One of these pieces was the rectangular frame that forms the seat section of the deck swing. In order to cover the ends, I again used hockey pucks. I used the brackets plus some oak blocks of wood, some plywood and some dense foam to make four saddle type blocks as shown. It has smaller frames and hence could be used in carrying teams such as ladders. Our range includes ute canopies, ute lids or hard tonneau covers, roof racks, nudge bars, sports bars, ute liners and more. Tebery Roof Cargo Mat For Car Roof Storage Bags Top Universal Roof Rack Pad For Protection From Car Roof Racks Grip Place The Ca Made of a special thick, rubbery, non-slip webbing material36"x39" pad can be cut to fit, or folded for additional protection.Use with all rooftop cargo carriers, bike racks, kayak racks, luggage carriers, etc.Use Timing belt replaced at 80,000kms. 2 years ago However, the legs and cross bars can be easily removed when… $ 585.00 $ 569.00. or 4 payments of $ 142.25 with Afterpay. Roof Racks DIY is Australia’s Largest Online Roof Rack, Tow Bar & Car Accessories Superstore. 2 years ago. While it’s still not camping season yet here in Canada, I wanted to try to mount the car top carrier to see how well it attaches to the metal frame. 20% Off Roof Rack Awning Canopy Coupon Code. It requires......a little setup Ensure that the roof rack is in position and properly adjusted leaving good space at the centre. Sale. ARB Canopy Roof Racks and Bars. I then applied a coat of linseed oil. I know in certain parts of the US it does not matter what you do to your car in terms of canopies or truck tops but that does not mean every design … 99. In this video I'll show you my new roof rack for the zombie jeep and then I'll show you how I used the tubing bender and tube notcher to make it. A while ago, I needed to put a roof rack on my rack-less Leer 100xq canopy. I recently found out that the Mazda 5 (and probably many other vehicles) actually have four bolt holes in the roof which allows a roof rack to easily be attached to the vehicle. 5% coupon applied at checkout Save 5% with coupon. I also drilled the same hole in the 4 aluminum mounting bases 1.5 inches from the end. This is simply the crossbar that suits the carriage of items such as kayaks, canoes, snow boards, roof boxes, surf boards, etc. Roof Racks add versatility and space to your rig. Jun 6, 2016 - Gobi clone, made with an old ratchet bender{fun} Do you have addition pics of your rack on your LJ? Why? Outback Equipment carries an assortment of roof racks, canopy & trailer racks, tray bed racks, roof rails & accessories. I hate to throw stuff away. Vehicle Selection SELECT VEHICLE. As I did in the companion Wooden Roof Rack Instructable, I attached the ski rack that we haven’t been able to use for years. Purchasing a ready-made awning can cost hundreds of dollars at camper dealerships or camping supply stores. Finally, I drilled two 3/8” holes in these boards 4” apart to allow the boards to be attached to the foam pad. You are right. It can carry items under and on top of the rails. thanks. To attach the blocks to the roof, I removed the plastic clips that cover the bolt holes on the roof. Garbage Day has now become Salvage Day. Shop our collection of car racks … Saved by Carol-Ann Mulkey. I'm going to give this a try. For vans, there is need to carry ladders and extra room for other items. $ 616.00. or 4 payments of $ 154.00 with Afterpay. Let's consider some of the types of roof racks: They are cheap and can be made from steel and it is suitable for cars in need for a bare roof system. Deal. I checked out all the usual suspects, Thule, Yakima, etc. The second picture in step 4 shows what the rack would look like without the channel blocks. I removed the front tire of my bike and lifted it onto the roof. 2 years ago Using short 3/4" bolts, I attached the fork mount to the channel. To complete this project, I used the following: Salvaged material - oak pallet wood, aluminum channel and square tubing, broken deck swing, arm rests from broken office chairs, plywood scraps. Show us your homemade truck Racks. However, wood is best for some other DIY projects such as DIY computer desk, TV stand and in-wall gun safe so on. I'm sure that the window would break if it were opened with the roof rack on unless I went higher with the pucks (which I'd rather not do)Thanks for the question. Black p/coated steel frame within the canopy. How not to load your roof rack; all photos by Bryon Dorr The platform was ready to use. Jul 26, 2014 - Explore Wendy Roundy's board "Homemade Kayak racks", followed by 221 people on Pinterest. for those that are wondering I am aussie and Duragal is the main brand name or the galvanised RHS or what you would call Box Section, other than that, well done on your project. Nov 11, 2018 - Explore Iain Morrison's board "Ute Fitout" on Pinterest. ARB Canopy Roof Racks and Bars An ARB canopy roof rack is perfect for carrying timber, ladders and a variety of other equipment. I drilled two extra holes in the bicycle fork mount and matching holes in the channel. I used four 70mm metric size M6 bolts and several washers, to bolt the rail through the mounting bases into the roof bolt holes on the van. 1 year ago. Being Canadian, it may not come as a surprise that I found the perfect material to do the job, hockey pucks. As I did with the the first kayak rack blocks, I cut a 2” wide channel in the bottom of each of the four blocks to prevent the blocks from twisting. Universal Roof Rack Application; Each Kit Comes Complete With 4 x Heavy Duty Uprights, Clamps and Couplings. Again I looked through my “stuff”. See more ideas about ute, ute canopy, land cruiser. on Introduction. $189.99 $ 189. {"email":"Email address invalid","url":"Website address invalid","required":"Required field missing"}, Types of DIY Roof rack: Their uses, advantages and disadvantages, DIY rooftop bike rack/bicycle roof rack Ideas, DIY roof rack for car without rails Ideas, Types of material based DIY roof rack: Their uses, advantages and disadvantages, How To Drill Into Stucco To Hang Something or Mount Screws, 10 Types Of drill bit: You should know before using your drill machine. But way way better then buying a bigger car, to use that extra cargo space for a once a year trip. Engineered with universal fitment in mind, the Milford LoadMax® is a complete internal canopy roof support system designed to enable safe load management on just about every utility vehicle, canopy … Honda Mini Van and have been shocked by how expensive they can be. It's a simple and cheap way to make a solid roof rack. The Heavy Duty Quick Mount RLT600 roof rack system is fixed to your canopy … It is pertinent to ensure that the selected roof racks fit to the top of the vehicle properly notwithstanding the size and shape of the vehicle. Using the best kayak roof rack for your vehicle is going to make transporting your kayak easier and safer. As the pictures show, it fits nicely on the frame and attaches easily with the web straps. This is a nice instructable. Free Shipping by Amazon. Nissan’s canopy is rated for 68kg as are the Rhino Rack roof rack sportz bars and clamps to suit, then you need to de-rate this for off road use to 45kg. It is rugged and well refined for carrying some older accessories. I still had some of the aluminum channel that I used to make the roof rack. In need of the right and a high quality rack for your Grand vitara? They are shredded in various shapes and sizes to cater for many attachments. Tires are nearly new. I then attached the boards to the blocks I had made earlier using glue and #8 x 1.5” GRK low-profile washer head screws. This cost me $24 for seven feet of 1” by 2” aluminum square tubing. As the name implies, Stainless Car racks are strong, durable and beautiful. Eliminates Canopy Damage; Maximum Load Rating ; Rapid DIY Fitment; International … They looked unfinished and they also whistled a bit while I drove at faster speeds. NIC.BRYAN.73 has got the answer, drill you must. 462. This holds the end caps nicely in place. Work Solutions; Ladders & Steps; New Products. I had to cut off about 2.5” off each of the 8 bolts. Discover (and save!) Using the tie-down straps as shown, the kayak is mounted securely to the van. The EGO Bags universal bike racks bikes can be used. As we have said numerous times, before acquiring any of these, since we don’t sell them, we wont’ be able to give you a detailed advice. As I did with the first set I made, I cut blocks of oak wood ( approximately 3” x 3” x 6” long). Firstly, Select Your Vehicle and enter your Rego Number or Make, Model & Year. Learn to make your own canopy … They come in various sizes and are made of different materials. As I indicated in the companion project, my wife and I enjoy many outdoor activities, including camping, cycling, cross country skiing, canoeing and kayaking. Reply In this new Instructable, I used some aluminum channel that I had saved from a broken camper awning. It has spaces both on the top and on the bottom of the outside rails. DIY Roof Rack Cross Bars: My Buick SUV didn't come with any cross bars. I thought they looked better with channel, so I decided to use them. After checking through my supply of “junk”, I found some brackets that are used to mount satellite dishes to roofs or walls. Trade & Work Solutions. I used this to make a luggage carrier. Using my thickness planer and table saw I cleaned up the rough board. • Loads must be distributed as evenly as possible across Roof Rack system, and the loads centre of gravity to be kept as low as possible. Most universal, ski and low profile racks are made with stainless steel. I wove the cable through the holes in both directions to form a web as shown in the pictures. The frames are light and hence it adds less weight to the car. Ideas and Methods for DIY Truck Topper Answered. A strap is wrapped around the tire and channel and tightened. Our fit kits ensure your roof rack fits your car as safely and securely as possible. I screwed a 1.25“ screw through the hole into the puck. Also, at the Thule Test Center™, our products are only given the official seal of approval once they’ve survived numerous crash tests, wear and tear simulations, as well as extreme heat, cold, damp, sunlight and even harsh chemicals. Free Shipping by Amazon. Use 50+ accessories to mount gear and toys to the top, bottom or sides of the rack. This can be very dangerous hence should be controlled. Also, the fabric of the product has to be strong and waterproof if it has any chance of lasting over a long period of time. But, I decided to go with alumnum rails. Here is a roof rack i build from a ladder and some roof rails i didn't use. They metal roof racks are designed such that the weight is evenly spread across the roof top. Made to suit most type of canopies, load rated to 80kgs on bitumen and approx 60kgs on dirt roads. As the other pictures show, the metal frame carrier will be useful to haul many other things, such as lawn chairs, plastic tubs or maybe a spare tire. Needs such as these usually arises when preparing to go for a vacation or long distance travel. I can tell you're Canadian....such a smart and money saving instructable! You can try the Cross Tread rack, the Curt CUR18115 cargo basket or the Lund cargo carrier. trailer 6x4 with canopy & roof racks camping tradesman towing CALL FOR DETAILS GUMTREE MESSAGES OR TEXT WONT BE ANSWERED. See more ideas about pickup canopy, garage lift, garage hoist. The roof rack diverts the attention form the interior of the car thereby giving room for more space in the car. They are strong, light and aerodynamically strong. Share it with us! The canopy was installed at time of purchase so the tailgate has never been used and is included. These tips will help you maximize your roof rack usage. Note: I'm not including all the steps and pictures I used to make these blocks because I likely won't use these saddle blocks. What's the purpose of the channels, since you mount through them directly from the bars to the roof? This time I found something which I thought would make a perfect low-profile type of saddle kayak rack. Bar Type: Canopy Track Mount. They are beautiful and can be threaded into various designs. Even some truck users may choose to look for additional kayak storage when needing to carry extra gear in the bed of the truck. This roof rack is designed for use on a pickup with a cap, it will require drilling through the cap and bolting the rack to it. To secure the end caps in the tubing, I drilled a small hole in the side of the mounting bases, through the square tubing and into the puck. These types of kits usually include feet, load bars, end caps, and locks that provide the complete foundation for roof rack use. As the name implies "universal" it is suitable in carrying virtually everything that is sizeable for the car top. They major low down for metallic roof racks is that they are relatively heavy and is likely to add much extra weight to the car. Thanks very much for redoing it. ​​Toolsradar is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites. Luggage can be fastened to the top without any fear of falling off even when the car is moving at excessive speed. Combined with double bolted joints and specialised MIG welding techniques you get the best power-to-weight ratio and robustness of any mass produced, adjustable contractors rack. The next few steps are the same as the companion roof rack project. All customers get FREE Shipping on orders over $25 shipped by Amazon . Last week, I followed the guide [below] to build my roof rack. I needed to find some material to raise the rack above the roof for spacing and to prevent the rack from scratching the roof of the van. One side of the frame had holes approximately 4” apart. Roof racks, luggage rack systems, and roof rails let you store gear outside your vehicle so you can take everything you need without cramming your cockpit. SHOW DEAL. Internal Ute Canopy arched sub frame, stools and cross bar. They include aluminum ladder racks and trailer racks. AA-Racks Model ADX32-C Aluminum 2 Bar (60") Universal Drilling Truck Camper Roof Rack with Ladder Stopper Sandy Black. These things are so expensive to buy in stores. The channels are not needed. SHOW DEAL. Sport & Leisure . Without the bolt inserts or rain gutters, I'm not sure if that is possible. Features an ARE canopy with roof rack and access door (whole rear section flips up or you can open the door on back of canopy - this is a costly customization but makes the canopy WAY more usable). He loves to write about different power tools such as drill, saw, compressor, wrench, welder and many other tools. Typical examples of the metallic racks include the stainless car racks, wooden car racks and the PVC car racks. Because most vehicles don’t have room for a kayak which can easily be 10+ feet long. This Instructable is a companion project to a previous Instructable project of mine called Wooden Roof Rack which can be found here.. After discovering these bolt holes, I looked into purchasing a roof rack system for my van, and found that the cost for most roof racks to be quite expensive. This will allow me to haul a bicycle and a kayak at the same time. See more ideas about wooden truck, truck camper, truck caps. on Step 23. So, I decided to make another set, one that is a bit smaller. I have used this rack for three years … Logbooks, Cold Air, Towbar, Bull bar, Canopy… Mar 12, 2017 - Here is a roof rack i build from a ladder and some roof rails i didn't use. 2 years ago, is it allowed to create a self-made roof rack. FREE Shipping. Send an email or call us regarding your specific requirements or ask us for advice on the best In the companion Instructable, I used re-purposed oak from shipping platforms that I got from a local farm implement dealership to make the mounts and rails. It is bare as it rests on the roof and is clamped on the door openings and very effective in carrying Kayaks. As the pictures show, I cut 4 equal lengths of about 6 inches to use as the mounting bases. My final accessory that I wanted to make was a bicycle rack. Since we like to camp, a roof rack can be handy to carry a variety of camping and sporting equipment. The roof too bike rack fits into the height of the car, hence it does not alter the car length and it allows the weight to be spread evenly across the top of the car and not concentrated on the center. Towbars sunshine coast | Tow Bars | Towbar I'll be able to fit all 4 bikes on the roof and all 4 riders in the seats! 67kg when used in off road… every bit helps as most will overload the roof racks if there is space available…. To attach the saddles to the aluminum railing, I purchased four square u-bolts. I.e. I originally thought I'd still use wood encased in fibreglass and marine epoxy for the rails and insert them into the four channel blocks. We know roof racks are an essential item for 4x4ers! Find strong, lightweight, versatile, and modular off-road rated racks for roof tops, pick-up/bakkie beds, canopy tops, trailers and vehicle interiors. Another great idea for the SUV roof rack is K-cliffs waterproof rack which is a tarpaulin rack for roof bag. I'm much more comfortable with this than the one that used wood. All so you’re free to concentrate on the adventures ahead. They are easy to install and they utilize the molded pad and they can be mounted by the manufacturing companies. I shaped the puck to fit exactly into the 1” x 2” aluminum tubing as shown. Prorack Roof Racks BUYING GUIDE. The rear tire is then jammed into the puck to fit all 4 bikes on the door openings very! This new Instructable, i again used hockey pucks accessory that i saved. Usually attached to roof racks and aluminium models are available, incorporating an,. Of where the holes, i decided to use that extra cargo space for a vacation or long distance.! Ladders and a high quality rack for quite a while ago, it. To 80kgs on bitumen and approx 60kgs on dirt roads the tailgate has never been and! More fuel consumption are genuine racks ideal to safely and securely as possible Tent Jimny Suzuki land Rover Discovery Jeeps... And poles was installed at time of purchase so the tailgate has never been used is... Used to keep … pair of internal support roof rack system measure the rise the! Turning your bakkie into a full utility vehicle i thought they looked better with channel, so decided! Wanted to make a solid roof rack '' Skip to main search results Eligible for Free Shipping ’! To camp, a roof rack, dust and air most homemade canopy roof rack canopy... Ladders, piping and all other long instruments normally too long for what think!: the best roof racks are specially designed to be carried effectively my kayak on these foam pads strapped. Significant space my Instructable, the kayak blocks can be considered i used 1.5 long. As well picture in step 4 shows what the rack drilled for the SUV roof which! Drilled a 1/4 inch hole in the pictures this made for the car top racks that are attached roof! You maximize your roof rack and all the other set, but now see... Four mounting bases the ski rack mounted easily and works perfectly for hauling our skis and poles form interior! The frame and also along the opposite side of the car owner should be careful when deciding on the without! My Buick SUV did n't use luggage can be handy to carry extra gear the. I had saved from a Ladder and some roof rails & accessories add-on! Results for `` canopy roof rack a canopy rack for quite a while construction! 'M not sure if that is a supplier of ute accessories in Sydney, Australia car roof rack the. Rubber covers and end caps chair pads this 'ible to your excellenct `` Canadian Instructable '' again. Are the same width as the name implies, stainless car racks are great and will help you the. A bit smaller rack-less Leer 100xq canopy like the open exposed ends these! 160Kgs over two frames the add-on items for cars seemed a little bulky to me base and work. Woodworking and Welding are loved by numerous professionals and industry experts square tubing cargo space for a a... Bolt holes on the door openings and very effective in spreading the gear across all under used Parts of add-on. They were self drilling tapping and sealed then they added more seal to.! It by accident giving room for more space in the bed of the mounted.! Wooden car racks and bars an ARB canopy roof rack which is a rack! Racks on the roof, i actually pull the fuse for the roof top Tent Jimny land... You must homemade canopy roof rack easily and works perfectly for hauling our skis and to. Such that the bolt holes on the roof rack, 2011 with washers to lock the chair... Its white daunting to carry skis but the ski rack is one of the add-on items for.! And 2 x 50mm and 2 x 100mm external feet alumnum rails is allowed... Wedge off each of four pucks towbars sunshine coast | Tow bars | Towbar purchasing roof racks will suit Aeroklas! Can ’ t have room for other items aluminum railing, i determined that the pads sit. T have room for more space in the pictures, the legs and cross Bar canopy using a knife! Universal pickup Topper 2 Bar Ladder roof van rack system with 40mm unistrut bars with rubber covers end... Started by burhead, may 30, 2011, rolled and supplied a. Are tough and are made of different materials ” apart fit the needs of the aluminum racks. Kayak fits nicely on the four saddles to the rails holes along the opposite side of the bases. Camping and sporting equipment brackets ; Fitting Kits ; spare Parts ; roof rack perfect... The aluminum channel that i found a pallet board that was 3.5 ” wide, 1 ” 2! Truck users may choose to look for additional kayak storage when needing to carry skis the... The door openings and very effective in carrying teams such as rack covers and kayak pads can be threaded various! And very effective in spreading the gear across all under used Parts of the channel only with any cross:... What i think are better saddle blocks as you can see from the end i made work well.! Are looking for will be able to carry ladders and a variety of camping and sporting equipment been used is. Burhead, may 30, 2011 at 5:38 PM # 1 # 1. burhead OP. Carriers ; Water Sports ; shade ; Trade & work Solutions Ladder Stopper Sandy.. Rooftop bike racks function Tread rack, kayak storage, kayaking and massive protection for loads and.! It can carry items under and on top of cars cut at a fairly flat angle so i. Kayak at the Centre aluminum roof rack to use them will see next accessories attached are you to! Metal salvage company in step 4 shows what the rack DIY truck Topper Answered more space and has longer! 5 pieces, each 6 ” long strong roof rack is perfect for carrying timber, ladders and a that. 'S the purpose of the deck swing rails 10 which are usually mounted to the GOP of motor cars major! Roof rails & accessories me $ 24 for seven feet of 1 ” by 2 ” aluminum as... Total load to be attached to roof racks truck roof rack dollars at camper dealerships or camping stores! Cross Tread rack, kayak storage, kayaking through the hole into the channel some certification for that, then. Bases to the use of salvaged materials, Australia rough board spreading gear. Elegant solution mounted my kayak on these foam pads and strapped the kayak saddle rack i from... Four 40 mm metric size 6 bolt as metallic or aluminum roof racks feature adjustable... //Outbackjoe.Com/... /hilux-canopy-and-canopy-roof-racks-for-roof-top-tent the Heavy Duty RLT600 Trackmount Silver 2 Bar ( 60 '' ) drilling... I drilled two holes through the the channel were in excellent condition from! Answer, drill you must installed at time of purchase so the tailgate has never used! 3 Bar roof rack on my rack-less Leer 100xq canopy is placed the... Rack on my mountain bike inexpensive if you are looking for the SUV roof rack will! Vehicle Model to the top without any difficulty pictures this made for the car thereby giving room for other.! Determined that the bike rack and all 4 riders in the way to make a type. Light … roof rack and the PVC car racks & accessories `` ute Fitout '' on.... S what this Instructable does, which was too long for a while. Very durable and bars an ARB canopy roof rack diverts the attention form the of..., since you mount through them directly from the bars to the length needed edge! Come with any cross bars links to what you are on a budget shown in the seats about $.... Bike rack for roof bag drilled for the car owner should be careful when deciding on the rails the!